The Flotilla Adventure

Mike,

Skipping the invective, and trying to avoid repeating myself, let's look at your "land grab" accusation.  How many times was Israel attacked by groups of Arab nations?  I've lost count.  But the "land grab" consists of not giving back all the land they conquered in these various attacks.  The Israeli rationale for not giving back all the land, something few victors in the history of warfare would consider doing, was that the Arabs would use certain sections as ideal launching spots for their next attack.

The Arabs attack, Israel resists their attack and wins.  After that there is Arab inspired outrage at the way Israel resisted.  "They jumped the gun.  They attacked us before we could launch our attack which isn't fair.  They didn't give back all the land they conquered," etc.

Forgotten in all of this is that these Arab states, continue to reject Israel's right to exist.  Their maps of the region show no Israel.  Their short and long-term goal is to "drive Israel into the sea."  Living at peace with Israel is up to the Arabs.  Let them recognize Israel's right to exist and relations will improve over night.  That is the most important issue -- not quibbles about how Israel secured its existence, "land grabs," "not fighting fair," "using more potent weapons than their attackers," etc.

I know you don't care about history or political philosophy, but Sayyid Qutb taught that there must be no compromise with "The West" which included for him and all his followers, all the European Nations, especially the U.S. and Israel.  If they were to conquer Israel, that would not bring peace with the West, it would encourage them to believe their Qutb-inspired strategy worked.  And if they should eventually destroy Israel, who could deny them that?

Yes, the idea that Turkey might go to war with Israel (as hinted at in the article you posted: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-erdogan-considering-visiting-gaza-to-break-blockade-1.294326 ) is interesting.  But note that the Turkish military isn't in favor of it.  They like being on good terms with Israel.  Turkey hoped to be the great secular light to the Arab World, but the fundamentalist Muslim world refused to accept their secularism.  For some time there has been conflict between the secular military and the Islamist-inspired Fundamentalists, largely in the outlying districts.  Erdogan seems to be their man.  One mustn't forget that their is a history of military coups in Turkey.  Turkey has gone a little too far in giving up their secularism before.  Each time the military has executed a coups and returned Turkey to the course Attaturk set for it.

Obama's siding with Israel is also interesting.  America's siding with Israel has gone on with few interruptions since the days of Harry Truman.  Obama seemed briefly that he might be one of the interruptions, but he seems to have educated himself in what's at stake.  See David Frum on this -- as well as his take on Erdogan: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-erdogan-considering-visiting-gaza-to-break-blockade-1.294326

Lawrence

From:  Mike Geary
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Flotilla Qhoir: "We Con the World"

Well you certainly should have been surprised, Lawrence, not only surprised, but as much amused as I am by your post, given that I have no such sympathy, nor did I write anything or have I ever written anything to suggest that I feel sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood.  You make me nostalgic for the late 50's to middle 60's when Commies roamed the halls of Congress, infiltrated all the universities polluting the minds of our young with the poison of Marxism, ran Hollywood propaganda machine,  fluoridated our water and contaminated our precious bodily fluids.  Having a purely evil adversary is both scary and uplifting.  Come, Papiols,  let's to moral clarity!  I have no life save when I have an enemy to fight.

I am fanatically opposed to fanaticism of any shape.  I am my own worst enemy.  I despise Islamic fanaticism as well as Zionist fanaticism as well as American fanaticism -- you get the picture, I'm sure.  Is Hamas an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood?  Could be.  Don't know.  Don't care.  They are the democratically elected leaders of Gaza Strip.  The IDF is not, nor the Knesset, nor Washington.  If I were king of the world, I'd outlaw Likud and Hamas, in fact, I'd kill just about everybody, but I'm not king, so you'll just have to live and let live.

I have no desire to revisit the crimes of Israel vis-a-vis the crimes of the Pals and other Arabs.  All are at fault. I accuse Israel of being Third Reichian, because like the Third Reich, Israel is pursuing a Labensraum policy, a land grab inspired by fanatical Zionists who want to reclaim all the "Holy Land" as the Jewish Homeland deeded to them by God.  But the only God I recognize is the UN who in 1948 established the State of Israel with set borders.  If you think Israel hasn't committed atrocities of the same scope and scale as the Pals, I can only assume that you follow a very different moral code than I do.  If Israel wants peace over property, then they must return to the pre-1967 borders, then all can talk.  But I don't think that's very likely to happen.  There's no Rabin around to lead Israel out of the jungle.  That's why Iran feels it imperative to acquire nuclear weapons.  And why Saudi Arabia will, and Egypt and Syria, even Burma now wants one. 

Re: Noam Chomsky.  I do have great admiration for the clarity of his thought and his courage to tell  the world to fuck off.  But I'm no Noam.  He's about a 100 IQ points ahead of me.  But I certainly share more of his values than Cheney's.

Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me that you would have no problem with war in the Middle East.  You may well get your wish very soon:

Report: Erdogan considering visiting Gaza to 'break blockade'

 "Erdogan reportedly raised the idea in conversations with close associates and even informed the United States of his intention to ask the Turkish Navy to accompany another aid flotilla to Gaza. The Americans asked Erdogan to delay his plans, in light of tensions on the region, the Lebanese report said."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-erdogan-considering-visiting-gaza-to-break-blockade-1.294326

Mike Geary
Memphis

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Lawrence Helm wrote,

Mike,

On the other hand, I'm not surprised that you would feel sympathy for an organization created by the Muslim Brotherhood, whom you may recall from my earlier notes, utilized the philosophy of Sayyid Qutb.  Indeed Sayyid Qutb was the chief philosopher of the Muslim Brothers and all the spinoffs such as Hamas.  It is indeed ironic that you would accuse Israel of being "Third Reichian" as it contests the aims of Hamas -- all Islamist organization derive, philosophically, from the Fascistic ideas of Qutb.

Israel has been attacked a number of times by Qutb-inspired Arabs who sought to complete the work of the German holocaust, that is, to obliterate the Jews.  But Israel was more resilient than the Arabs expected.  One mustn't forget that Arab sympathy, during World War II was largely for the Germans.  Not all "Third Reichians" who escaped Nuremberg fled to South America.  Some fled to congenial Arab nations like Egypt. 

But if you share the views of those like Noam Chomsky who believes that the "enemy of my nation is my friend," then you're going to sympathize with the poor Qutb-inspired Islamists who have been thwarted in their desire to destroy Israel in the past -- and dearly hope that the next time they band together to try it, they'll succeed.

But getting Israel to return all the land they conquered from previous attempts by banded-together-Arab nations is something the Arab nations have been successful at.  They need that land so they can creep as close as possible to Israel the next time they attack.  Of course those of us who don't have their heads stuck up Chomsky's ass might not blame Israel if they don't wait until they are attacked before taking action of their own.  At present the Arab world may be holding its collective breath hoping that Iran will drop one of the bombs (that they have developed for peaceful use) on Israel, and then hope that the wind will carry the radioactive debris out to sea.  They also hope that Israel won't have the guts to do anything about Iran before then. 

Has someone been "conned" who willfully supports the ideals of an Islamist organization like Hamas?  Maybe not.

Lawrence

From: Mike Geary
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: Flotilla Qhoir: "We Con the World"

I'm surprised, Lawrence, that you find this piece of sledgehammer propaganda "funny."  Satire should be made of subtler stuff - much subtler.  But then, so should Israel's policies with its Arab neighbors.  However, since the assassination of Rabin by a right-wing religious fanatic, Israeli policy makers have become Third Reichian in their approach to the world.  Just goes to show you: "Those to whom evil is done, do evil in return."  Most American Jews are apparently as distressed as I am by Israel's militaristic, racist, "fuck you, world" turn.  Hopefully they can convince the U.S. government to withdraw all aid to Israel until they stop their occupation, their labensraum land grabs and recognize that God did not give them any right to anything but their own life.

Mike Geary
Memphis

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg&feature=player_embedded#!

". . . it is [from] the Israeli TV Show Known as Latma TV, it's kind of like Saturday Night Live, only funnier."

A blog reader sent me the Youtube production.  It is pretty funny.

Lawrence